The Curious Case of David Thompson and Victor Zammit

Hi All

So far I have not raised the DT issue on this forum, probably to the relief of many. However, in the links area, Z has been kind enough to post a link to the Psychic Times 1,000 pound challenge regarding Allan Crossley.

In reality this issue is closely related to the many questions that had been raised, over several months, upon a long running forum, the Spiritualist Chatroom (SCR). From these discussions a member presented a range of 30 serious questions to Victor Zammit. It was commonly felt upon the SCR that the questions needed answering in order to restore faith in the mediumship of David Thompson.

Just one area of these questions related to the celebrity visitors, such as Allan Crossley.

The approach which was made created a significant response from VZ in his weekly report and also in a “Materialisation Corner” he created upon his main site. Suffice to say that his response was very similar in nature to the abusive attack on Simon Forsyth, an approach he has used on many others before including Marcel Cairo and Michael Prescott.

Now this original SCR has been disabled, by an unknown cause, after two hacking attacks directly related to the threads concerning DT /VZ, as well as all of the personal messages of the major contributors to these subjects. Once the forum went off line Victor Zammit dropped any pretence of answering the serious questions that had been presented to him. Additionally, very soon after the old SCR died, the web sites of both Victor and the Circle of the Silver Cord were progressively revised to remove a number of items and some abuse. It is interesting to look at the original versions of both of these web sites pre this event, I am sure they are available as I would surmise there are many copies around. As part of these changes a number of séance reports, pertaining to specific questions raised about events by SCR members, were taken down off both sites. Again I would surmise that there are many copies of these also widely spread around the globe.

Before I go too far let me say that VZ believes I am biased, in the past wrongly accusing me of posting on the old SCR while not disclosing the fact I was banned from attending DT’s séances in Adelaide in January 2008. He also took considerable offence to a post where I suggested that, in the face of the significant issues which had come to light a Professional Empiricist who had been a committed circle member for two years should hand over the investigation to an independent Professional Scientist. In his own inimitable style, whilst also abusing all and sundry on the SCR (a cesspool of negativity), he managed to create a paragraph likening my efforts to a Klu Klux Klan Wizard. In fact my ban came one month after DT had welcomed me, by invitation, to the séances and indicated he was looking forward to meeting my wife and I again. They never justified the reasons for the ban but did refer to it arising as a result of postings on that old SCR.

These related to 4 issues.
The Circle had introduced a Form which was a necessity for all would be attendees, I challenged both the intrusive nature of personal information and also the excessive disclaimers required.
Then the fact that, having enjoyed a visit David made to our Mission, we wished to find a copy death certificate for his main guide William Charles Cadwell so were seeking additional data of his existence.
It moves to Psychic Surgery and an issue that cures had not, as promised, been achieved during his demonstration at our Mission but only as a part of a discussion on how to enhance the efficacy of this work.
I also caused some ire by querying the claim that passive infra red photography destroyed ectoplasm and was an endangerment to the medium.
Finally that I did not see the type of trumpet and general phenomena being produced as conclusive evidence of Spirits involvement because much could be driven by telekinesis in the heightened atmosphere of a seance.

Such is life and I am grateful for being saved nearly $130 (aus) for a séance that was stopped very early, by a curious and relatively inexplicable event. The trumpet was moving slowly round the room but actually struck a woman attendee with such force that she cried out in pain (indeed she stated that it was like her worst enemy had hit her). Although in a small room no other attendee heard her and the séance was stopped with the medium reported as apparently hurt by the organisers.

I do feel it must be emphasised that no one on the SCR, or to my knowledge outside it, suggested fraud, although it is equally clear that every one who hears of these matters would like some genuine explanation. The issue really stepped up and became very bitter when several USA groups appeared to withdraw from a planned tour, where DT was to visit various centres over an extended period. If the facts given from the United States were correct it is not surprising the issue became very acrimonious. It would appear the charge per head was US $ 280 for a minimum 40 people per event, with full air fares and expenses for 6 people. With DT set to earn US $ 11,200 per séance and numerous events organised it would have been a major income earner for the Circle and it would appear that they also hoped to arrange an interview with someone like Oprah Winfrey.

It is equally unfortunate that just prior to this VZ, in his web site’s “materialisation corner” answered a “question from the SCR”, which had not been asked, stating they made no money doing these séances. I wonder then what he was paid on the UK visit and on each of his other tours, knowing how much he earned from us on his visit. At that time his fees were lower and the more expensive physical séance was excluded. However, I also add that the SCR had not involved itself in the pricing of séances and never raised either DT’s personal financial motivation, or his right to charge as he wished.

Part 2 Follows

Part 2
Now we come to the real content, of the issues which had been raised with VZ and which he promised to answer. There are a few extra ones that arose because the few answers he gave never resolved issues but added more questions. This was particularly relevant with several “leading” questions which he posed for himself and then answered (they had not been raised on the SCR).

The whole subject built up as a result of a startling discovery in relation to DT’s spirit controls. Anyone who has attended an event involving DT will know that, for many years, he has been extremely pleased to promote the fact that his two main guides had an earthly existence, giving full names and birth and death dates. Indeed the chief "spirit control," William Charles Cadwell (WCC), said he was a man of science, born in London in 1830 and died there in 1897. Another "control," Timothy Booth, also gave the dates of his birth 1899 and death in 1908. Indeed Timothy, during a Cober Hill Séance reported by the Psychic Times Timothy, said he knew William in the physical life http://www.thepsychictimes.com/articles/seance.htm. Both claim to have known Honest Jack the Gardener another of the guides involved. Even before I go any further, note that Timothy and William have given dates showing that they were not alive at the same time, so could not have known each other in the physical as claimed in the Cober Hill Seance. To support his claims of reality for his guides DT clearly states on his web site (although now somewhat diluted), to his audiences and to the organizers of events that Montague Keen researched the existence of WCC as part of his scientific research on DT’s mediumship. He also claimed the same about the Society for Psychical Research who had checked WCC while researching DT’s mediumship. The concept of research is one I will return to later but I draw attention to DT’s 2002 email to Michael Roll categorically refusing to be scientifically researched by anyone http://www.cfpf.org.uk/letters/2002/2002-10-12_mr2dt.html . Again bear this in mind when we revert to the claims of scientific research by Montague Keen, the SPR and latterly Prof Garry Schwarz (a claim promoted by VZ strongly).

We will now stick to his chief spirit control. A rigorous check was made of all genealogical records. Of the birth records, the census records for 1841, 1851, 1861, 1871, 1881, 1890 & 1901, together with a search of the death registration (by 1890 this was mandatory and preceded burial, the records were meticulously kept and preserved through both wars). There is no William Charles Cadwell, let alone one described as a man of science living anywhere in the UK let alone in or around London, fitting any of these records. This check was made by several people including experienced genealogists and they reached the same conclusions. DT’s circle appealed to the SPR and it became clear that they had not researched this at all, however Guy Lyon Playfair, in response to this appeal, did a check for them once contacted and said there was a death of a William Caldwell in 1899. Unfortunately this Caldwell has the wrong dates, wrong name, is a born, bred and died Lancastrian. Not a man of science and not a realistic answer given any recordings of William.

It is now very clear that WCC never existed in the claimed life and was never researched, Montague Keen’s widow has confirmed that there was no research done by him. Sadly the same situation exists for Timothy Booth. All of DT’s other guides gain their reality from WCC who has told an untruth which is compounded by DT’s claims about research.

VZ has effectively conceded the non existence by the words he uses in his report and web site, although DT refuses to acknowledge a problem leaving the Circle’s web site unchanged. VZ did try to answer this by saying that it did not matter. In one amazing paragraph he placed both Jesus Christ and Silver Birch in a discussion concerning WCC, indicating the words of the man were the most important in proving his worth, the fact he gave the wrong information about his life was unimportant. He was extremely unpleasant to the people who had raised the query, in his traditional manner. In honesty if a Spirit gives such absolute detail there is an expectation that, to be trusted, they should not be misleading.

Even if we accept VZ’s contention then we have to look at the words of William. Unfortunately not only has William apparently misled us on his life but some of William’s pronouncements, recommending for example the use of Aspirin for pregnant women to avoid Downs Syndrome Babies, are not only unintelligent but downright dangerous. Though COSC and VZ have removed from their website the relevant audio tapes and transcripts others have saved these and I quote.

From a séance apparently on the 28th April 2007

“WCC talks of Aspirin many years ago was thought to be the future wonder drug. He said that in America there was research taking place that it could help cure AIDS and downs syndrome. He said there seems to be a connection between HIV and downs syndrome.
The lady sitter claims she heard a report on a radio station about aspirin and cancer. She says there was no mention of HIV or Downs syndrome.
William states that the information was given to him to relay that evening and that a connection had been established between HIV and downs sydrome.

The last words were that they would put it on the website for people around the world to listen too.”

Then in a séance soon after in 13th May 2007

"William: You know I must say this. Please may I say that this must only be done upon your physician's instructions. If older people who have children, was to take an aspirin every other day from the time of being aware of being pregnant, it would alleviate any problems with Down's Syndrome."

According to this transcript William also said:-

"If we eradicate Down's Syndrome upon people who have children in a older age bracket, if they were to take an aspirin every other day from the moment of being aware of the pregnancy, to of course, maybe one week or thereabouts before having the child."
It was reported William also said:-

"Quite often in older age bracket people who become pregnant, the circulation of the blood is not as free due to the type of foods that they've eaten over the years, and also, if they have smoked. Well of course the lack of circulation of blood than that in a younger person, does effect the growth of the child at certain gestation periods. This is when, that certain periods of time, which of course, Down's Syndrome and such as this can occur. If the blood circulation was more free, then of course within certain gestation periods, this would not occur, hence the use of aspirin."

The person providing this transcript then said

“I think that William made his thoughts on the use of aspirin quite clear. When people emailed Victor, David and the COSC regarding this matter, the recording and transcript were withdrawn and the reason they gave was due to the negative attention the issue was attracting. Is it any wonder?”

A brief perusal of medical literature will show the dangers of Aspirin, except as a possible treatment for pre-eclampsia. Indeed the US FDA issued a warning for pregnant women not to use Aspirin in the last 3 months of pregnancy. There is no link between HIV (a virus) and Downs Syndrome a genetic disorder arising from excess Chromosomes. Equally there is no prevention or cure available for Downs Syndrome and it is unthinkably cruel that a wise guide would suggest there is a way of preventing it.

Given this information I really believe that WCC must be rather dismissed as a guide of substance. In this respect it is of real concern that VZ had reported on his site that he accepted the arrival of the visitor Mahatma Ghandi because William confirmed who it was.

It is also concerning that this leads us to his other guides who are all conducted by William. We obviously note that Timothy has said he knew WCC in the physical and yet the dates make this impossible. In his defence Timothy did not exist in the years he claimed either, so he is obviously not who he claims to be as well.

Unfortunately this also leads to DT’s Surgeon Guide who is a part of the team, under convenor WCC. At our Mission DT, WCC and the Surgeon, Dr Slavinsky, claimed they would cure people, a dangerous claim to make. Provably there were no cures and one person was deeply affected when an apparent improvement failed 24 hours later, in view of the promise made earlier (in honesty, as DT was exhausted after the session, it may be indicative of some intense powers of magnetic healing, as everybody experienced a short term effect).

Unfortunately the circle leader of DT’s long running Haymist Circle had worse to report. At a Cober Hill event, where psychic surgery occurred, DT did psychic surgery and “Dr S” told a person that he had no cancer, for them to die of it in two weeks. He also told a Lady who had a Mastectomy that she had not needed this operation.

Again this is not greatly suggestive of great wisdom that the guides should share with others in public.

Now let us look at the claims of research into DT’s mediumship, claims at odds with his own words to Michael Roll. The first concerns Montague Keen, his widow has confirmed that no such research was done by him and he only met DT once, not twice, for the séance written up in the ISS site. Montague also told the Haymist Circle leader that he subsequently felt he overplayed the report, mentioning a cut on the hand that he subsequently realized was a self injury, gardening the previous day. We have also established that no research was undertaken by the SPR and that DT refused to participate in any such work. Indeed the references to SPR research have been amended and it is likely this has arisen by contact to VZ and DT from the SPR themselves, who repudiated the claim. In fact DT even turned down an opportunity to collaborate with Prof Garry Schwarz, indeed we were told he showed a surprising reticence to be involved although he knew he would be significantly reimbursed. Victor has now acknowledged that his claims of research by Garry Schwarz were wrong. From the statements made by DT in his time with us in Adelaide it is easy to understand why people may have misinterpreted the actual research claims.

So we now have problems with the Spirit Control and the claims of research. What follows on from this in the SCR discussions? Well the most obvious issue is that of the celebrities. The Allan Crossley issue is well in hand with Simon and the Psychic Times but it is only one of many problems. The cream of the crop is Harry Houdini who we will treat separately after looking at a general summary.

Part 3 follows

Part 3

Firstly let us note what Victor has said about the special visitors. That they come when there is someone who is connected to them in the circle. As a reserve position he indicates he does not really care if they are not who they say. Clearly the need for a personal link is not always the case because the star attractions have often been Mahatma Ghandi, Harry Houdini, Louis Armstrong, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle etc.

VZ has indicated that he has used Audacity voice analysis software to prove they are not DT. Sadly Audacity software is unsuited to this and Michael Prestcott has proved very simply how easy it is to fool. In making the comment about the software VZ mentions sophisticated voice comparison software of the type that the FBI use. Please note that he does not say it has been used, this is quite correct because it has not been. It is a wonder that, when even now a very rare voice recording of Ghandi speaking in English has been discovered that no effort has been made to try comparative voice identification. I also note a new recording of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle has been discovered.

Instead we have to rely on the ear, with people hearing the two voices side by side where either comparative recordings are available or if they knew the person. It is very clear that the majority, both on the SCR and commenting generally, find little similarity between the voices, use of vocabulary or the relative levels of intelligence. I notice that in VZ’s weekly report of the 27th June he begins to attack the veracity of all direct voice, implying real voices cannot be expected.

Additionally, to compound matters, the spirits have brought no specific unique evidence to prove themselves as who they claim, except once and on this one occasion with HH it added to the debate.

Indeed the Spirits are rarely tested by the circle in any way, on a couple of occasions, when this was attempted, the spirit has refused to answer, notably on one when a member asked Houdini about his wife (given the lengths HH went to to set up a code with his wife, to prove it was he, if a medium linked to him, this seems odd). Quite frequently one hears the apparent spirit shout Zammit which is another odd thing. Indeed remember Mahatma Ghandi was accepted by VZ because WCC said so.

So what specifics apart from Allan Crossley and Houdini do we find?
Maurice Barbanell and Silver Birch? Well one SCR member sat in this circle on a couple of occasions and has a rare 78 recording. He assured us there is no similarity, either vocally, or in the level of “wisdom” pronounced, he also confirms that the newly retired editor of Psychic News, who also sat in the circle, agrees with this view.
Sir Arthur Conan Doyle with no Scottish Accent or evidential proof
Mahatma Ghandi - well Lis has heard his speeches, no match.
Quentin Crisp. I heard this recording playing two rooms away and was sure it was the “William” I heard speaking with David in Trance August 2006. I shouted to Lis, is it William? She said no, it’s supposed to be Quentin Crisp. As an artist she went to life drawing classes in London and QC was a model, so she regularly chatted to him. Also QC was not his real name. Others concur that it is not his voice, having known him.
Louis Armstrong, well really, why has he never played his trumpet in the séance but he does appear as a harmonica player. Any long term Jazz lover would no he never left his horn behind for a jam session.
Coral Polge who many will have heard and the voice recording seem very unlike her voice.
Then to use another quote “It is an insult to Gordon's (Higginson) memory particularly when he (the “materialized celebrity GH”) tells the sitters’ that Arthur Conan Doyle wrote "On the Edge of the Etheric" and had to be corrected by a sitter who pointed out that it was Arthur Findlay's work.
Indeed the lack of voice recognition has been compounded with comments arising about the formation and use of language.
Compare this to the way that the leader of DT’s Haymist Circle says things were conducted then, “I cannot find stories of babies disappearing back to the spirit world or aspirins being the cure for genetic disorders New Yorkers having southern drawls because it fits, claims of being tested when not. None of these happened when DT was in the UK. The experience of those around him then, excluding myself, would not have allowed it to take off.”
This comment about a Southern Drawl brings me back to Harry Houdini the shining jewel in their “celebrity materializations”, of course they claim this is the first time he has come back. Well even that is wrong. Arthur Ford brought him through for HH’s wife, now it may be contentious but a record shows that the secret phrase was given to her at that time. Then again he came through via Anna Wickland, wife of the eminent psychiatrist Dr Carl Wickland. Of course HH was a Hungarian Jew, emigrating to New York with his Rabbi Father. Yet the first recordings DT put up were with a Southern American drawl (explained as a blending of energy in the transition from Louis Armstrong, a gentleman with a distinct accent as a result of his African heritage) and now this recording has been taken off their sites.
Just before the UK trip there was a transcription of a Circle of the Silver Cords séance where HH said he would apport something that personally belonged to him, which the magic circle in New York would recognize. Now the fact is the Magic Circle was known by HH to be in London. Then at the first Séance in the UK an apport appears, with apparently the hand of HH illuminated on a luminous planchette. This was recorded and pictures of the coin, a HH commemorative coin are on the COSC site. Problem is the coin was minted 30 odd years after HH’s death. COSC have promised an answer but this has not been forthcoming. Now the picture of the coin is on the COSC website but that séance record has been removed. Why, oh why, would HH apport such appalling “evidence”?
I think it is clear that many have problems with the material being brought from the celebrities and the provability of the actual entities involved.
Finally I guess we must get to the personal messages that are brought through. It is important to understand that DT is not a materialization medium, in the sense that he brings through recognizable forms in light (and DT personally agreed to this on the old SCR). His materializations are in the dark, so they are neither recognizable or provable in the way of some past mediums. We therefore have to look at the actual messages. Having seen DT demonstrate Mental Mediumship I realize that he is an excellent psychic and more than an average medium. Just on the basis of this one would expect him to provide decent messages in a séance. However, the feedback seems mixed, even about this.
In terms of good personal evidence it is hard to track down an unequivocal statement. It would appear, from the accounts I have seen, that the evidence is not as strong as you may expect from a loved one who has taken the effort to materialise into the room with you. For all the material which seems genuine there appears to be some disparities in the same messages. An example is the "materialised" man who stepped forward so the lady could hold his hand and feel the ring he wore, except afterwards she said he never wore a ring. Indeed it received much comment on the SCR that the actual evidence is less good than a good mental medium would produce and there is no effective visual evidence to support it.

His ex circle leader and another developing physical medium acknowledge that when people go into a seance room some lose a sense of reality. Remember in many seances they are going into a darkened room where they must not move or speak without permission, loud music is played, they have to sing silly songs to raise the energy and strange events occur. Some are desperate to contact one who has passed. Others now seem to come and just enjoy the carnival, which too many seances have become.

These same experienced people go on to comment that many seem overwhelmed by pressure to not cause a fuss and will go along with anything that is said. Other sitters simply accept any information given to them in the seance room, because they fear to never be welcomed by the medium again if they don't. In reality even if we train the mediums properly we also need to train the sitters better, to be fair to the mediums (mental or physical) but not to accept that which does not ring true.
We also need now to go back to that “dreaded form”, a necessity for any would be attendee. This is used to create the list of attendees and on arrival DT meets them and places them in the room himself to ensure an energy balance. Although on the surface this is quite reasonable it does give the Medium a huge advantage, with a vetted select group, carefully seated.
Having got to this point we have really covered the main issue, the rest are less relevant to the circle. However, I know some others have expressed more concerns about the method of securing DT with non luminous cable ties. They worry given the constant references to escape artists freeing themselves and retying themselves with relative ease. Also because many people can familiarize themselves quickly in strange places, so being able to comfortably move around a dark room, that they have seen and in which they have positioned the people. In reality my concerns are more related to the evidential and guide aspects which, if they were unequivocal, would render securing the medium somewhat obsolete to me.
Other matters of concern, well before running a Mental Mediumship workshop, DT said words to us and then again to the attendees which left little doubt that he was a Tutor of the Arthur Findlay College. Apparently the same was said in West Australia but an attendee there had strong links to the AFC and checked this to find that it was quite incorrect.
Well also the fact DT kept denying he used false names on the old SCR, yet in one discussion he involved himself over time with four aliases. VZ also denied any Circle involvement even whilst his wife was a member.
Some on this forum may remember more of this whole event but I believe the above is a full synopsis of the problems and questions which have been asked.

DT was very quick to disown a fellow Medium Warren Caylor when it appeared that there were major issues about the veracity of that persons Mediumship. Now that Warren has agreed to a Séance under the full control of PN, to prove himself, maybe DT will agree to the same, to deal with the questions openly, publically and without aggression.
It may be a start if VZ dropped out of all of this. Up to now his angry responses, to any comment in relation to DT the séances and his personal involvement have just inflamed matters. I doubt he could exclude himself and would personally expect to be targeted again in his newsletter and web site when he hears of this synopsis. I hope that this time he and DT put their heads together and decide to respond in an appropriate manner
Clearly without reasonable answers the facts and observations given above will be looked at by each individual, who will add them to what they know of DT, COSC and VZ. Everyone will form an opinion and draw a personal conclusion. Questions such as this go to the heart of DTs mediumship, they will continue to flow around and spread out unless a resolution occurs.
Do I have a view, yes, the issues are so many and varied I wish DT would agree to a proper scientific study of his mediumship to remove any possible doubt. I also believe that, as Spiritualism is a religion of Truth, then we have a need for answers to respect our Philosophy and ensure the integrity of Proof of Survival.


Cheers

Jim

Sounds like COSC stands for Crock of S*** Con

Hi & Welcome Obiwan,

Luckily you have now to register to join their site.

Jim

zerdini wrote:Brilliant summing-up of DT's mediumship, Jim.

No doubt you will be attacked by 'Killer' Zammit eventually as the news spreads worldwide but be of good cheer.

People throw stones at a tree that is full of fruit.

You have rendered an excellent service in the name of TRUTH.

Cheers

Z

I totally agree with everything Z has said here. I've saved your piece in my 'spooks' folder for future reference. Thank you Jim!

Hi Jim long time no chat hope ur well.

Hi All,

We are not the only ones debating DT a group of magicians in "The Magic Cafe' have been debating the seances. Someone is trying to replicate and improve on DT's performance by Magic and maybe we'll get a video

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=226134&forum=18&start=0

Cheers

Jim

Hi All,

I would like to thank TMMW for drawing my attention to the following recent web article.
http://felixcircle.blogspot.com/2008/07/david-thompsons-circle-of-silver-cord.html

to show what is written
"Freitag, 18. Juli 2008
DAVID THOMPSONS CIRCLE OF THE SILVER CORD PROVIDES US WITH THE FIRST NON-INFRARED REST-LIGHT- PHOTO OF MATERIALIZED GUIDE

Because of their refusal to use infrared during their sittings they were long long blamed. Their Spirit-communicators had strictly forbidden the use of that kind of rays protuding the room allegedly because of great dangers for the externalised ectoplasm and so for the medium himself.
The fascinating ongoings while his seances, the mediumistic productions of David Thompson, were completely dismissed by many, because the need for darkness isn't accepted by all.
The reasoning on the Circles' side is not new. Many mediums claimed from the beginning on that light, the human glance and infrared rays disturb certain mediumistic productions. Already 1860 the Mesmerists and Fluidists clearly stated that "the magnetic radiation of the human eye hinder the possibilities of influence of the spirit world."
Besides we know many other biological processes that does not work in light. And since the "Observer-Effect" is known in quantum-physics, one can easily imagine, that it is a real need and not only a cover for fraud.
However. The circle kept their word and substantiated their refusal in so far, that they proved they really only wanted to avoid infrared and not per se filming. With a modern very high sensitive rest-light camera they now have filmed the first materialised figure in pitch dark, and the first still-photo can be seen on their website (one has to register). Chris Hood, the Circle Leader announces to publish the complete filmclip in the upcoming weeks. Be prepared."

Fascinating does anyone know what "Sensitive Rest Light photography" is I have never heard of it and a websearch gives nothing. My understanding is that the very best digital still and digital video cameras all use some infra red actively, so I would love to know more of this technique.

This issue of photography I raised a long time ago. Just before the UK tour VZ cut off the questions about using infra red photography during the tour saying they had been informed infra red was harmful to ectoplasm. He also said they awaited a report from Ron Pearson and that a "special film" would be produced in the UK under controlled conditions and with special security precautions. With nothing forthcoming a friend of mine sought an answer from Ron Pearson for me because he knew him. Ron confirmed his report concluded passive infra red was not harmful but active could be. He also said that the Special Film was not scientifically verifiable. I was, of course, fascinated given the past use of infra red, red light, blue light and even magnesium flares.

I guess we must all wait and see, even if there is a picture it will need scientific verification especially from a new technique and not just from a source such as Ron Pearson who appears quite close to the Circle. This is especially in this instance where the key group, who have produced the photograph, are so closely Knit, have been together as a circle for over two years with a significant vested interest in getting a result.

In addition it fails to address the "who are they" concerns about both the guides and apprent "celebrities'. It also does not handle the issues of aspirins and telling people that they do not have cancer, amongst several other issues still needing resolution.

Cheers

Jim

"Fascinating does anyone know what "Sensitive Rest Light photography" is I have never heard of it and a websearch gives nothing. My understanding is that the very best digital still and digital video cameras all use some infra red actively, so I would love to know more of this technique."

As this appears to be a translation from German perhaps 'rest light' is 'residual light'? I'm guessing that even the best darkened rooms will have a small amount of light which is not visible to the human eye and I would guess that military-style image intensifiers could amplify that to allow recording. Is that what is being suggested do you think?

It's something I've long suggested should work in a darkened seance room without risk.

Hi Mac,

Interesting thought, however I can tell you that the rules DT imposes for black out are extreme. Remember before it fell over, as a result of their financial demands, we were chosen by the guide William to run one at our Mission, we were to use our Healing and Circle room. Total Black out curtains I mean as heavy as we can and with no possibility of light in with the existing blinds behind. All internal light bulbs removed and down lights taped over and internal doors with black out curtain, fuses pulled so no light could come in.

In honesty so little residual light that any image would be so indistinct as to be meaningless. thats the standard rules Mac. You would have to have infra red, passive, to get any chance. In honesty if that is what a Physical Medium needs it will give us no proof to convince any other than a committed believer, it would not convince a Spiritualist who needs Truth. In fact what is the point, the rest of the shortfalls in the COSC/DT questions listed in my synopsis, invalidate any fuzzy images that may appear here.

Sad really but until Physical mediumship accepts detailed scientific control or enters the world of light it will never do other than potential harm to proof of survival in the wider world. Time DT agreed to a proper scientific evaluation as has been suggested by messrs Prof Gary Schwartz, Michael Roll, David Fontana and Prof Archie Roy. If he is as real as he says and VZ states why would they hold back. This gives even my willingness to accept him a major reality check. The people proposed are not negative, critical sceptics. indeed, even if they find in DT's favour, we all know the sceptics will not accept it but those of us who accept proof of survival will applaud.

I have heard reports that the image looks like a blob, I used to love that film one of the great cult science fiction productions. Could it be appropriate? I guess I won't know, I understand a few ex SCR members may be having trouble registering on COSC.

Cheers

Jim

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blob lest you have forgotten

I believe in Blob.