Letter to Psychic News

Lis wrote:

COSC2014 wrote:

Lis wrote:David says he has a problem with the word "Demanding" and suggests he only 'asked' for the camera to be removed, even though it was unplugged and therefore quite unable to impact in any way on his séance activities.

May I ask whether David would have gone ahead with the séances had the camera not been removed?

In other words, was the removal of the camera, even though it was inoperative, a condition of the séances going ahead? If so, why?

Liz, you will never know, because your question is now hypothetical!

What utter rubbish David. The question applies to an actual event which has taken place. Either you would have continued with the séances if the camera was not removed, or you would not have. So which was it David?

Lis wrote:

COSC2014 wrote:

Lis wrote:It seems to me, that whenever physical séances are held, especially when they are dark séances, there will be people who have attended who will more than happy with what occurred during the event, especially when they are avid supporters of physical mediumship and the particular medium involved in the séances. But, it is also quite common to find that not all who attend such events are as happy with what took place, or who have, in their opinion, observed or experienced something during the event/s that gives rise for concern in their minds.

Often such concerns, because of the very nature of the event, held in darkness as they are, though very real to those who have been concerned, are matters that the people feel unable to talk about publicly because they cannot prove what they believe they have seen or experienced.

When, however, numerous people experience having their feet trodden on or perceive other troubling aspects of a séance, it is much harder to claim that their concerns can be dismissed or explained away as a misperception of what was actually a demonstration of the presence of spirit.

To my knowledge, never in the history of physical mediumship, and especially materialisation mediumship, has it ever before been suggested that people experiencing their feet being trodden on was a means of spirit making their presence felt.

Liz, you seem to be an authority and Expert on Physical Mediumship, please tell us why you think these things happen, Oh! how many seances have you sat in and with what mediums?

I hope you are enjoying your game playing David. As it happens I, unlike some, don't claim to be an expert on physical mediumship, but I do claim to have made an extensive study of the history of physical mediumship. As for your question regarding how many séances have I sat in and with what mediums, I will merely say that I have sat in many in my over fifty years of involvement with Spiritualism. I see no need to list all the mediums, but I will say that the last physical phenomena séance I sat in was one where Colin Fry was the 'medium'. After that, I made a conscious decision not to waste my time or energy on what the current exponents of physical mediumship offer, it being so far from the quality and substance of the great mediums of the past that I had seen.

Deb wrote:Sure David,

maybe it was just your manner that I interpreted as demanding so I apologise for that, perhaps explicitly requiring it be removed from the room, might be better.

I am also aware you had great supporters there including Sunny and his friends so I am sure they are happy to provide you glowing reports.  The complaints however have come from neutral parties and that in itself can say something.

As for Helen's visit she is here to teach a class and as you are probably aware and also in agreement as a tutor yourself, that the students work in class captured on camera is not of public interest or should it be.  If Helen decides to do another transfiguration demonstration we will have cameras on and if it is a public event (much like your séances) then this footage will be available.  At this stage we have not planned one for this visit.

COSC2014 wrote:

Deb wrote:Sure David,

maybe it was just your manner that I interpreted as demanding so I apologise for that, perhaps explicitly requiring it be removed from the room, might be better.

I am also aware you had great supporters there including Sunny and his friends so I am sure they are happy to provide you glowing reports.  The complaints however have come from neutral parties and that in itself can say something.

As for Helen's visit she is here to teach a class and as you are probably aware and also in agreement as a tutor yourself, that the students work in class captured on camera is not of public interest or should it be.  If Helen decides to do another transfiguration demonstration we will have cameras on and if it is a public event (much like your séances) then this footage will be available.  At this stage we have not planned one for this visit.

Hi Deb,

I have tried twice now to answer your above post in a positive way and both times they have been deleted, seems Liz and Jim, are censoring what they want on their blog site, obviously they dont want people to agree!

COSC2014 wrote:Totally agree with you Deb 👍

COSC2014 wrote:

Deb wrote:Sure David,

maybe it was just your manner that I interpreted as demanding so I apologise for that, perhaps explicitly requiring it be removed from the room, might be better.

I am also aware you had great supporters there including Sunny and his friends so I am sure they are happy to provide you glowing reports.  The complaints however have come from neutral parties and that in itself can say something.

As for Helen's visit she is here to teach a class and as you are probably aware and also in agreement as a tutor yourself, that the students work in class captured on camera is not of public interest or should it be.  If Helen decides to do another transfiguration demonstration we will have cameras on and if it is a public event (much like your séances) then this footage will be available.  At this stage we have not planned one for this visit.

Hi Deb,

I have tried twice now to answer your above post in a positive way and both times they have been deleted, seems Liz and Jim, are censoring what they want on their blog site, obviously they dont want people to agree!

Lis wrote:

David no one to my knowledge has deleted any of your posts. Certainly we have not and I would thank you to stop making false accusations about us and this forum.

Admin wrote:

Lis wrote:

David no one to my knowledge has deleted any of your posts. Certainly we have not and I would thank you to stop making false accusations about us and this forum.

Absolutely Lis we are meticulous we only remove abusive blogs and not even then if they have some relevance. In this case we said we would not and have carefully ensured that everything remains as originally posted by the poster

COSC2014 wrote:

Admin wrote:

Lis wrote:

David no one to my knowledge has deleted any of your posts. Certainly we have not and I would thank you to stop making false accusations about us and this forum.

Absolutely Lis we are meticulous we only remove abusive blogs and not even then if they have some relevance. In this case we said we would not and have carefully ensured that everything remains as originally posted by the poster

You know its really sad, well actually quiet funny watching Liz & Jim, backing each other up, do you have different computers in the same house or take it in turns? You know  you two are like two with a squeaky toy each taking a turn at having a bite, with Mac as the litte terrier waiting to have a turn!

You really shouldn't take yourselves so serious, do you think that people take you seriously? you really should have a look at the way you both carry on, you are so self righteous, if it wasn't so funny it would be sad, you guys really need to get out! wonder if you will delete this, actually maybe you might ban me!

Admin wrote:Now remember that at this stage you are not contributing constructively to this thread. Indeed your posts are becoming abusive, unpleasant and pretty much infantile. It almost looks like it is your intention to force us into a position where we must delete your posts and indeed ban you.

If you wish to remain I do hope you step back and join in, or just go away again, so we can lt your name quietly slip off our forum, or partly off it while valid queries posed by many people remain unresolved. We have indicated that, unless something of interest, taht is newsworthy crops up about you. This is the same with any of the current physical mediums, hence the thread on Mannion and Muegge and some others but essentially silence on your good friend Scott.

I am sure we are all much too busy, with better things to do with our life than to keep dealing with mindless posts like your last one. I would hate to ban you or delete a post.

COSC2014 wrote:

Admin wrote:

Lis wrote:

David no one to my knowledge has deleted any of your posts. Certainly we have not and I would thank you to stop making false accusations about us and this forum.

Absolutely Lis we are meticulous we only remove abusive blogs and not even then if they have some relevance. In this case we said we would not and have carefully ensured that everything remains as originally posted by the poster

You know its really sad, well actually quiet funny watching Liz & Jim, backing each other up, do you have different computers in the same house or take it in turns? You know  you two are like two with a squeaky toy each taking a turn at having a bite, with Mac as the litte terrier waiting to have a turn!

You really shouldn't take yourselves so serious, do you think that people take you seriously? you really should have a look at the way you both carry on, you are so self righteous, if it wasn't so funny it would be sad, you guys really need to get out! wonder if you will delete this, actually maybe you might ban me!

COSC2014 wrote:

Admin wrote:Now remember that at this stage you are not contributing constructively to this thread. Indeed your posts are becoming abusive, unpleasant and pretty much infantile. It almost looks like it is your intention to force us into a position where we must delete your posts and indeed ban you.

If you wish to remain I do hope you step back and join in, or just go away again, so we can lt your name quietly slip off our forum, or partly off it while valid queries posed by many people remain unresolved. We have indicated that, unless something of interest, taht is newsworthy crops up about you. This is the same with any of the current physical mediums, hence the thread on Mannion and Muegge and some others but essentially silence on your good friend Scott.

I am sure we are all much too busy, with better things to do with our life than to keep dealing with mindless posts like your last one. I would hate to ban you or delete a post.

Jim, I was quiet happy to let sleeping dogs lie, until I saw you trying to stir things up in your locked post about questions to me, its funny how you can comment and no one else can! if you feel my posts are "Infantile" well thats your point of view, I am just stating the obvious! If you wish to ban me, well that up too you also, but it will speak volumes about where you stand and it will show your blog site to actually be bias, because I havent insulted you, like you say, I have freedom to have an opinion and just because it doesn't fit your point of view doesn't make it wrong.

Lis wrote:

COSC2014 wrote:

Admin wrote:

Lis wrote:

David no one to my knowledge has deleted any of your posts. Certainly we have not and I would thank you to stop making false accusations about us and this forum.

Absolutely Lis we are meticulous we only remove abusive blogs and not even then if they have some relevance. In this case we said we would not and have carefully ensured that everything remains as originally posted by the poster

You know its really sad, well actually quiet funny watching Liz & Jim, backing each other up, do you have different computers in the same house or take it in turns? You know  you two are like two with a squeaky toy each taking a turn at having a bite, with Mac as the litte terrier waiting to have a turn!

You really shouldn't take yourselves so serious, do you think that people take you seriously? you really should have a look at the way you both carry on, you are so self righteous, if it wasn't so funny it would be sad, you guys really need to get out! wonder if you will delete this, actually maybe you might ban me!

Interesting post David. Not, unfortunately on topic, nor based on fact, but clearly you have not come onto the forum to put forward any rational or reasoned comments about the issues relating to the use of thermography in physical séances as a means of finally beginning to deal with the fraud that has been going on that needs to be stopped. Now, David, I know your view of a number of the current physical mediums, who it would appear may have been deceiving those who have so dedicatedly attended their séances, believing, falsely, that they were experiencing genuine physical phenomena and spirit interaction.

Perhaps now is the time, David, to speak up and publicly reveal your understanding and knowledge of some of what has gone on in the physical phenomena arena rather than wasting time and energy making childish remarks that contribute nothing to the discussion and sadly make you appear to be rather petulant and unpleasantly abusive. Not a perception of you that is likely to enhance your reputation.

mac wrote:Following Lis's last posting concerning the late Colin Fry might I encourage those who speak about 'physical mediums' and 'physical mediumship' who work publicly and for a fee but only work in the dark to use the words I've been using for some time now - phenomenalists and phenomenalism?  

Lis wrote:

mac wrote:Following Lis's last posting concerning the late Colin Fry might I encourage those who speak about 'physical mediums' and 'physical mediumship' who work publicly and for a fee but only work in the dark to use the words I've been using for some time now - phenomenalists and phenomenalism?  

Hi Mac,

The difficulty I see in identifying as "phenomenalists" those who work publicly and for a fee but only in the dark is that we can't actually be certain there is any phenomena actually occurring in the darkness. It would be to attribute to such people a skill or talent that is rather unproven to say the least.